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If you can exploit them, go for it. I guess it subjectively comes down to what you consider "unplayable" and what you consider "worth it"? It's easy to learn to count. I can see some merit to that argument. BB code is On. IMO the only good ways to count are either to Wong in, meaning you only sit when a count is favorable, because you've been counting while standing off to the side, which isn't allowed pretty much anywhere anymore, or to play as part of a team, which is actually cheating, as I see it. Originally Posted by Mr. I identified weak dealers who flashed their hole card and literally learned their schedules and followed them around. Originally Posted by GBV. Well, this statement is just not true. Do not play long. Forum Rules. Get in and get out ASAP. Any places still have for all games? It might be a way of treading water whilsts looking for other profitable opportunities: dealer mispays, some form of card exposure, shuffle-tracking etc etc. Last edited by ChipWrecked; at PM. Last edited by browni; at AM. Smilies are On. Last edited by Mr. Play when other big action is happening. I don't see ANY relation between Wonging or team play and bet capping. I am not going to jump up and exit the table, nor am I going to pretend I didn't see and don't have that information. That just was NOT the way I wanted to win or support myself. It's a good idea if you're looking to gamble for fun but it's not a great way to make money in Given your threads about losing 20 Powerball tickets in a row, I don't think card counting is for you. Jones; at AM. But many most are still very beatable. Anyone have any other thoughts on this? I'll take the bait. Only in the casino industry's eyes. Fundamentally I've always been strong, I just suffer from tilt issues. You can forget the Strip, unless you're playing at the highest levels. Yes, you can make money, but I wouldn't call it reliable. His teammate is, And when that information is passed between players, you can make the case that is colluding, and not a stretch to consider that "cheating". Modern games are mostly unplayable. I've been playing poker on and off since the boom, but never put in enough work to be a real winner. Team play is taking it a step further in an attempt to exploit the casino. If you aren't prepared to bet high, you will have a hard time finding a decent game in a place where you aren't worried about being stabbed on the way to your car. My fellow counters won't like my reasoning, I am sure. If I were starting from scratch today, I wouldn't bother. Counting is merely exploiting the nature of the game, dependent trials within the deck. As I said, it is the casinos responsibility, but for me when you cross over to seeking out that information and weak dealers, you have crossed some sort of line that I am not comfortable with. Why do I want to play negative counts when there are better opportunities close by, like the next table. Generally ignoring these aspects poker is a more profitable game. Oh yeah if you want to count, some tipping will definitely help you stay longer. If you can do that, more power to you. You can get around this typically playing short sessions, but this causes a lot of down time where you are making no money at all, and the casino will still catch you eventually even if you have the best cover and never stay longer than an hour.

User Name Remember Me? I deal tables and can tell you that it can work but you need to be even more devoted to thinking about not getting caught as you are with being skilled at counting.

Which brings us to blackjack. It really foxwoods blackjack the casinos responsibility to protect their games, so I don't really have a problem with other players that do so Now, of course, sometimes when you are playing, during the natural course of play, I will run up against a weak dealer and see some hole-cards.

Can I make reliable money doing this? One night I set my alarm for 3am to get to Circus Circus just in time for a very weak dealers shift. However this is a sentiment often expressed by older players, who played in an era of better conditions and games.

Originally Posted by browni When you compare to other similar opportunities out there, card counting is a pretty weak advantage play, IMO. Is it worth learning how to card count, and all the intricacies associated with being successful at the game?

Some blackjack games are more profitable per risk than poker, but these games are rare and often more closely watched. I'm not talking about just reading a book and increasing blackjack discussion groups edge while betting for fun, but I'm talking seriously learning the game, practicing blackjack discussion groups software blackjack discussion groups all that.

I can understand that frustration, as games today just aren't as good as the 'glory days'. So is this for a BJ rule a thing everywhere in Vegas now? But with team play, the traditional call in approach, the player being called in is not the one doing the thinking.

Not going to try to argue here because both our opinions are already decided but I think your position is WAY out there. The sweet spots in decks are few and far between. And as for hole-carding I won't go as far as to say cheating, but it is a gray area for me When I relocated to vegas, 8 years ago, I got into some hole-carding for about a 3 months stretch.

Jones Find More Posts by Mr. This makes poker so superior to counting it's not even close. But it's unethical.

Advantage play depends on casino lucky blackjack super something that isn't mainstream.

It's physically possible to do and get away with, at least for a while. Card counting in BJ can be worth it if you: 1 like to sit at BJ tables and try to hide that you are a counter, especially when it's about the first thing all the pit bosses and eyes in the sky look for I came to poker from low-level counting.

With poker, you can exploit bad players in a nice environment for low stakes. Those that are, aren't worth it. Edit: Wonging is a gray area imo. Living in a city with many casinos and tables in close proximity, I have tailored my game for my situation, meaning I exit negative counts wong out very aggressively.

It gets tiring, having blackjack discussion groups concentrate so hard for lengths of time both on the count and your cover.

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That was the moment I said to myself "what the hell am I doing? It's just my opinion. Originally Posted by WaKtickets. The others are simply further uses of brain power. Jones Find Threads Started by Mr. How can thinking be labeled "cheating". I play blackjack for a living, my 14th year now. But it's so difficult to pull off, and easy to protect the game from, it doesn't really matter. Counts are often bad. I've seen plenty of players who could count great but gave zero thought to how to blend in or playing at the optimal time and they ended up getting walked off before they could really do any damage. In the same realm as capping a bet. It is difficult to sustain a reasonable winrate for your risk when the casino can notice what you're doing and ask you to leave at any time. I frequently track multiple tables, the game I am playing and a neighboring table, looking to jump to a better opportunity with zero downtime. The game is designed to be one on one, player vs. Originally Posted by ChipWrecked. Casinos introduced continuous shufflers into the game. How is team play itself cheating? Originally Posted by kewlj.